priy raj thackeray,
me tumhaala priy mhantey hyaacha artha asaa naahin ki tumhi malaa priy ahaat. me zari osama bin laden la patra lihile tari hi priy osama asech suru kareen. kaaran sabhya lok je astaat tyaaanchya bolnyaachi ek padhdhat astey. tumhaalaa nahin kalaaychi ti padhdhat. zaau dya.
maazaa janma zaala thane zillyaat dombivli madhye. jya varshi me janamle, tyach varshi maajhi family dadarla shift zaali. maaze aai-vadeel malaa kityek vela saangaayche ki maazaa janma tyaanchya saathi lucky hota kaaran aamhi tyach varshi ‘bombay’ madhye aalo.
maaze lahanpan dadarchya ekaa lahanshya chaalit gele. maajhya buildingchya samor bhagwan dada rahaayche. maajhya address madhye shankar abbaji palav marg asaayche. maajhi shaala, king george urf raja shivaji vidya sankul urf indian education society’s english medium school urf pandit dhamdhere high school urf kunaas thaauk aata kuthchya naavaa khaali aahe. maajhya shaalet ingraji hi marathit shikvaayche.
aamchya building madhye sarvaat pahila tv aamchya ghari aala. black and white ec tv. dar shanivaari ani ravivaari poorna building aamchya ghari gola whaichi, dd varti picture baghaayla. budhwaari chhayageet, guruvaari chitrageet. me kityek sakaali bhupali aikoon uthle aahe, sandhyakaali baatmya aikoon zople aahe. kilbil baghaayla utsukt zaale aahe. navratri madhye mothya khidkitoon chhote chhote haath baher kaadhoon samorchya maidaanat chaalu aslele ‘ambabaicha udho udho’ chya taalaat taalya vaazvilya aahet me. batatyachi chaal aikoon hasle va shamchi aai baghoon radle.
ya varshi tumchya mule maajhya tees varshaanchya aayushyaat pahilyaanda malaa aathavle ki me marathi naahi. tumchya mule malaa aathavla ki marathi majhi maatrubhasha naahi. tumchya mule malaa kalla ki roz sakaali oon, paaoos, thandichi parva na karta jo manoos majhya ghari hasat hasat doodh gheoon yeto, toh manoos bhaiyya aahe. ha gujrati aahe, to bihari aahe, aani to tikde bengali aahe. kaal paryenta jo mumbaikar hota, to tumchya mule bihari, gujrati, bengali, jaat, haryaanvi zaala aahe.
aaz jithe tumhi aaplya bodyguards chya kushit zopta, bullet proof gaadit firtaa, aaplya mulaana foreign chya oxford ani cambridge university madhye bharti karnyaachi khshamata thevtaa, tithe aapli tarun berozgar mula gundyaan saarkhi vaagat aahet. aapla taarunya shikshan aani samaaj kalyan chya aivaji dadagiri madhye ghaalavtaait.
maharashtraane tumche kiti laad kele. itki varsha tumhi ya rashtraakadoon, mumbaikaraan kadoon kaay kaay naahi kamaavle – pratishta, power, paisa, lokaanchi jai jai kar, lokaanche prem, lokaanche vote. aani parat kaay dilat?
amravati aani vidarbha madhye ze shetkari aatmahatya karit aahet, te marathi manoos naahit? tyaanchya kutumbaanche haal kon samaznaar? kon saambhaalnaar tyaanna?
laturchya bhookampaa nantar tithe kaay zaale?
malegaon baddal kami bollelach bara, naahi ka?
kaa aaplya police force kade saadhe basic bullet proof jackets naahit? ka aaplya havaldaraancha pagar itka kami aahe ki tyaanna aaplya mulaanche kamit kami shikshanahi mahaag padte?
kaa aaplya sheheraat rastey kami aani khadde jaasta aahet? khaddyaanvar zunya puraanya rickshaw-taxi madhye travel karoon karoon aamchi kambar tutli aahe.
kaa pannaas varshaan nanterahi aaplya sheheraat paaoos poor gheoon yeto?
kachra kaa dustbin madhye kami, rastyavar jaasta zama hoto?
marathi saahitya, marathi kala, marathi chitrapath, hi sagli industries kuthe aahet?
ritesh deshmukh aani seema thackeray marathi pictures ka naahi banvat? dadasaheb phalke kon hotey, hey tumhaala tari maahit aahe ka? mag tumhaala maahit asel ki tumchya eka foreign trip che je budget aahe, tyahoonahi kami budget madhye banleli ‘shwaas’ va ‘tingya’ saarkhi marathi chitrapatey national aani international award jinktaait. zara kalpana kara ki tyaanna barobar protsaahan milaale tar oscar mumbai pasoon door naahi.
kadhi marathi library ughadnyaacha vichaar naahi aala tumchya marathi manaat? tumchya mns madheel konihi kadhi 'mrutunjay' vaachoon radkundila aala asel ka? ki fakt dusryaanna radvinyasaathich banavli aahe hi sena?
berozgaari che samaadhaan hinsa, hey tumhaala koni ho shikalvle? berozgaaraanna wada pav stall kholoon denya aivaji computer science ka naahi shikvat? aarda-ordi karnaara gunda banavnya aivaji tyaanna kirloskar ka naahi banvat?
tumhaala bhiti vaatte na, ki shikleli mula tumchya kaaboot naahi raahnaar? hi mula zar sales vice president kivhaan marketing manager kivhaan college professor banlit tar kashi tumchya ishaaryavar “mumbai bandh” ordoon nirdosh lokaanvar besharam darodekhoraansaarkhe vaar karnaar?
lahaanpani me superman chya goshti aiknyaa aagodar shivaji maharajaanchya goshti aiklyaa. kasa tyaanni aaplya peksha ‘double size’ chya afzal khanchya mithitoon sutka keli aani tyaala maaroon taakle. kasa tyaanni khidkitun paloon zaanaarya shaistekhanchi bota kaapli.
aaz parat ekda aaplya khidkit aatankvaadi aaley aahet. te hindu astil kivaan muslim, tya aatankvaadyaanchi bota (aani barach kaahi) kaapnya aivaji, tumhi aaplyaach mumbaikaraanchi maane ka kaapat aahaat?
arrey nihattya maansaanvar matheranchi maakade hi vaar kartat. aatankvaadyanvarti vaar kara, mag swataahla 'sena' mhanaa.
aaz aaplyaa sheheraat ak-47, rdx pakdoon aatankvaadi khullam khulla firat aahet. ashi kuthchi hi zaaga naahi jithe nirdosh mumbaikaraancha rakta saandlele naahi. local train paasoon 5-star hotel paryenta, hya sheherachya pratyek saavlit bheeti cha tandav chaalu aahe. ashya veli maajhi tumchyashi ekach vinanti aahe –
aata tari bas karaa.
bas karaa dharmachi, jaatichi aani janmarashtraachi aadh gheoon lokaanchya jivashi khelna.
bas karaa mumbaikaaranna ekmekanviruddha bhadkaavna.
bas karaa mitraanna dushmani shikavna.
raj, bas karaa tumcha gundaraj.
nirdoshaancha asaa paschataap kadu nakaa.
votansaathi lokaanchya potaanvar laat maaru nakaa.
aaz aaplya mumbait zar koni ‘baaherche lok’ aahet, tar tey fakt ani fakt terrorists. tyanna thaambva na mumbait paay thevnya paasoon.
aapli power vaaproon mumbaila ekatra kara.
aamche tukde naka karoot. aamhi aadhich tutlele aahot.
ashya dukhachya veli tumhi parat mumbait raada kelaat, tar marathi manoosach naahi, kontaahi manoos tumhaalaa kadhihi maaf naahi karnaar. mumbai cha itihaas mumbaikaraanchya raktaat naka lihoot.
ingrajit mhantaat na, last but not the least. shevatcha mudda, pann kami mahatvaacha naahi – me baaherna ingraji aahe pann aatun marathit bolat aahe. tumhi baaherna marathit bolta pann aatoon ingrajaanchi divide and rule policy karat aahaat.
me marathi nasoonahi assal mumbaikar aahe.
tumhi marathi asoonahi mumbaikar naahit.
jai hind, jai maharashtra.
- ek saadhaaran mumbaikar.
38 comments:
listen can you please write this in German so that he can understand it
hahahahahahahaha
and can you please ask n.g to write in a font which old men in their thirties can read
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=210920&title=mumbai-tragedy
Check the daily show clip. Well, talking to aaj ka gunda Raj is like talking gundas at Taj, i guess.
i only wish he read this. can i hyperlink this from my blog?
of course probe. but i have my doubts he will be affected by any of this, he is too smart and selfish to not know he's wrong.
priy T (and I mean the "priy")
tumhi kiti sundar patra lihayla ahet. mi tumhala thank you mhante.
raj thackeray ek asshole (gaandu?) aahe ani mi dakshin bharatiya aahe pan mi raj chya peksha mothi (bigger - not fatter) mumbaikar aahe.
god my marathi sucks. but yours is totally impressive.
i was brought up in bombay and lived there all my life (till i moved abroad) and it makes me so angry when Raj Thackeray spouts this divisive crap.
Sorry for ranting so much. your letter just triggered it off!
excellent post now that someone translated the gist of it to me. Reminded me of the Sikhs, Tamils and marwaris of Calcutta who speak unaccented Bengali. I hope they never have to write such a letter to anyone
broom, don't stop the ranting. it's the first step towards making a difference.
knife, the only way to shut up people like raj thackeray is by calling their bluff, in the language they insult by speaking. if every marathi speaking person steps forward and tells him to stop, maybe he'll be forced to get the message.
well as they say, those who forget history...
Good Post. I agree your thoghts about Raj. Tormenting people, no matter where they come from, isn't right. If he chooses to focus on right issues he has so much potential but the politics of division will not work.
People like Sharad Pawar have Swiss bank accounts and yet do not come to help of farmers committing suicides. same must be true of Thakereys and Deshmukhs.
You might some of the few non marathi folks who actually know the language.
Coming from Pune, where we primarily converse in Marathi, it comes as a shock that most people in Mumbai don't understand the language. I have nothing against Hindi but I don't think it is too much to expect in Marathi in the state capital. Maybe being a Punekar I don't understand Mumbai.
Its not a good feeling you cannot speak your mother tongue in the state capital.
I think Marathi is bound to die a slow death. It is already optional in Mumbai and the trend will soon catch Pune.
K
Amazing! I am a marathi, but not a mumbaikar, but you mirror my feelings precisely. I could have never said it so effectively, with such simple eloquence.
Maybe we could have someone with Obama's oratory read this.
T-Tai,
Tumchya patraashee mee poornapane sahamat aahe.
Tyaachbarobar tumhi hee goshtadekheel dhyaanaat ghya ki Matungya saarkhyaa bhaagaat aaj mala dukaandaar yogya vaagvaat naahit jar tyanchya dukhaanaat gujarati bolnaara dusara girhaik asala tar. Mag mazi aipat kaay aahe ani mi kitihi kharokhar kharedi karayla ka gelo asenaat. Ani te dekhil ashaa Matungyaat jikade mee janmalo, shikalo aani lahanaachaa mothaa zaalo.
Kadhikadhi mi swatahala 'Tamil Inside' mhanato karan maza baalpan amchya shejaryaankade jaasta ani mazya ghari kamee gela. Pan asheech vaaganook jevha tamil ferivalyaankadun jevha disoon yete tevha kaay vatata kaay saangu!
Maaze saadhe kapade baghoon ani maaze Marathi aikoon maazee kimmat keli jaate. Pudhchya veli jar mi office-wear madhye mazha UK accent baher kaadhala tar chitra palatate. Ani yaachaa parinaam mhanun kuthetari kitihi chhotya pramanaat ka hoinaat pan Raj chya bolnyaat agadeech tathya naahi ase mee mhanu shakat naahi - malaa Kini prakaranaachi kitihi aathvan asalee tarihee.
Ata tumhala vaatel kee mee Rajcha samarthak aahe. Navhe, tasa muleech naahi. Pan malaa nanyaachi dusaree baajoo namood karaveeshee vaatalee.
Dhanyavaad
D
absolutely D, naanyaachi dusri bazoo astey. pann kuthchi aathvan thevaaychi aani kuthchi fekun dyaachi he aaplyavar astey naahi kaa? it's tough when the experiences are personal though. i remember when i was in school, bal thackeray had started the whole south indian thing. there were neighbours almost a decade older than me who'd say things like "jikdoon aalees tikde parat zaa" when i'd be walking back from school. but then there were other sweethearts who'd send us modaks and kothmeer vadis and aloo vadis every now and then too. i chose to remember the latter and refused to acknowledge the former. it's tough but not impossible. and we're not alone. almost everyone faces some frustration because of someone else having some unfair reservation about them. we see it in office promotions, caste reservations, housing society decisions, education admissions, it's everywhere. i've even seen at our international airports, our own officials are sweet to foreigners and rude to indians who are obviously first timers. any kind of unfair reservation is irritating and therefore very dangerous to fuel. our politicians are just waiting to create a bad situation so that they can step in and save the day.
and k, i agree that it's sad about the state of marathi as a language bombay. people here are actually proud of the fact that they have lived here for decades and can't speak the language. i've never heard anyone say i'm 30 and i don't know a word of english. but then we are a bizarre lot. we threw out the brits and now we laugh at our own accents, spit on our own streets and beat up our own fellow citizens!
this reminds me of a very interesting article here:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/28sai.htm
do read it. it's very sad and so very true.
Have read it before. I am a fan of Sai.
I cannot under how learning a language would hurt someone.
When Raj parted from SS he had a good chance of creating something unique distinct and focused. But alas.
Instead of beating people up he should ensure that Ads for all government employment are posted in local papers. that will make it fair not dadagiri.
I wonder how other metros tackle the issue of heavy immigration.
I think there is serious lack of young lforward thinking leadership in India.
K
@anonymous/k: that's the beauty of Bombay. I spent a large part of my life at Calcutta before shifting to Bombay. You couldn't do without Bengali at Calcutta. The only time a knowledge of Marathi would have helped me in my last ten years at Bombay was when we were getting married at the registrar's office. That's what I love about Bombay. It welcomes everyone. That's why I say 'Bombay'. 'Mumbai' doesn't represent that spirit. And, from what I understand, Maharashtrians do not for the majority in Bombay. And the origian residents are Kohlis who do not speak Marathi. So in the famous words of Ian Fleming, let's live and let live. This is a very special city. Let's feel proud about this.
Knife:
When I see things from your perspective I can understand the what a magical city Mumbai must feel to you.
But you have to see it from our perspective too. Its our state capital, wanting to speak the mother tongue isn't a too much of an ask.
Again, I live by the principle of "Live and let live" so I prefer dialogue.
The state of Marathi as a language compared to Bengali is different my friend. Marathi is dying day by day due to onslaught of Hindi.
We can rest this issue, your perspective and my perspective will always differ. We can choose to disagree.
Liked your food blog, seems like you eat out quite a lot. :D
Cheers,
K
@ The Knife: I think you have some of your facts wrong. Kolis speak Marathi. And compared to other language groups Maharashtrians are in majority. You can check the census figures in the wikipedia entry on Mumbai to confirm.
So even though your point about special status of Mumbai and about the ethos of live and let live is valid, I think you are doing disservice to yourself and your readers by using the crutches of falsification of facts to rationalise your justification for your point of view, which I share.
There are many valid and genuine arguments against the bankrupt politics of victimisation formented by Raj Thackeray. However, you aren't going to convince anyone from the other side if you use disingenuous facts to argue in favour of a genuine cause.
there are many versions of who was the original bombayite and which language they spoke. some of my east indian friends are quietly convinced they were the ones. some kolis speak marathi some speak konkani/malvani.
i think the point we all are making is that as long as the intentions are genuine and the means peaceful and respectful to every individual, no one should object. it’s not fair to crib about small things like writing the shop names in marathi as well and then keeping quiet when people get beaten and the city is crippled by unnecessary bandhs. parents shouldn’t have a problem if marathi is a compulsory part of the syllabus till such an age where the child is able to make a choice. if the language in question were french or german, would they have a problem, i have my doubts.
and this is not just a marathi phenomenon. it’s an indian thing. i’ve seen people in bangkok not knowing a word of english and not making any effort to make life easier for the foreign tourists and they are bloody proud of their king, whatever he might be. here street urchins and vendors in goa speak in english. it is commendable yes but it’s also sad because they have to learn it out of necessity. it’s a question of respecting and upholding our languages and that has to come from home. we all hear italian and french people speak – they are not ashamed that their english is grammatically wrong or accented. we find it cute even. then why do we cringe and laugh at heavily accented marathi/mallu english?
for years every venezuelan beauty queen has come on stage with a translator. can you imagine a miss india universe coming on stage and speaking in bhojpuri?
@T: thanks for writing this post which has led to this lovely discussion. I totally agree with you that you have two types of beliefs. You have the French or the Thais who strongly guard their heritage. Then you have the Malay's, us or even the Turks http://farawaydiaries.blogspot.com/2008/10/fierce-turks.html who are more warm and open to other cultures. As someone who has been a visitor to most of these I would enjoy my trips to places like Turkey, Singapore much more as they have made a conscious effort to makep people feel at home. They make feel ashamed of India where foreigners get groped, mugged or even raped.
I would ideally like to live in a Mumbai rather than a Chennai or Kolkata which are so closed to others.
But then I am not a native and I am sure locals might think differently.
But such folks would only watch local cinema, read local books...I think most of us on this blog wouldn't do that. Whether we would like to is another question. I personally have lived in 5 cities and 3 countries and 2 continents so would prefer an eclectic life.
@Chetan: I wanted to reply to you first. I did some research and stand corrected. You were right.
According to NRS 06 Marathi is the mother tongue of 47% in Mumbai. Hindi 20% and Gujarati 13%. Bengali is 0.6% but I am sure we make much more noise than that :)
What worried me, and I might have misread this, was the antagonistic tone of your mail.
I am not the 'other side'. I am an Indian. There was no intent of 'falsification of facts'. This is what I thought I had picked from the media. But as I said, I was wrong.
This issue is obvioulsy close to your heart and I respect your belief.
But I strongly feel that there is a time and place for everything. Right now we have just come out of a situation where people might have gone to catch a train, eat at a 5 star and died. Lives, families, relations, friendships were snuffed out suddenly. Even now my hairs stand at their end when I think of this. I selfishly think that it could have happened to me or my loved ones.
I think the point T tried to make (maybe reading a translated version of this could help melearn Marathi) that we need to rise above divisivess.
Else we will be like the Congress who can't get a CM of the right caste, etc rather than the right quality.
@anonymous/K: wanted to revert to you first. Thanks for sharing your POV. There is nothing that we Bengalis like than a good adda/ debate.
I understand your anxiety about Marathi. So what do you suggest? Encouraging its use in official lingo seems obvious. The other options are stop non Marathi speaking people from coming in or make them speak Marathi. Its obvious that you don't subscribe to that view. (Chetan might have suggestions/ views on this)
One option could be if locals start speaking more in Marathi. I have never had to speak in Marathi in the last ten years. So didn't feel the need to learn it. In fact I have picked up some Gujarati as I have had Gujarati colleagues and a Parsi wife. This is very different from calcutta where you HAVE to know Bengali to survive on the streets, socially and at work. I hated that and moved out.
I didin't know about the Marathi dying bit but here are some encouraging (?)facts.
The 2001 Census of India site (see Chetan I have been seriously reading up today) says there are about 7.5 cr Marathi mother tongued people in India. Bengali is 8.5 cr. Gujarati is just about 4.5 cr!
I must personally confess that the language issue is not very central to me since I have grown up in a multi cultural context. I hold on to my Bengali roots through food rather than the language http://finelychopped-k.blogspot.com/2008/08/bengali-in-mumbai.html
Anyway, most of Bengalis suffer from hubris, and don't feel insecure about our identity ;) Even if we should. A lot of us believe that ganguly is the greatest sportsman ever!
But I do know that language was a big rallying factor in the Bangladesh independence movement.
And finally, Bombay/ Mumbai. I am afraid this city has gone much beyond being just a state capital. This is one of the few truly global cities. If Malaysia is Truly Asia then Mumbai is Truly India.
I know of of people who have shifted to Calcutta and don't feel at home. I have never felt more at home here.
Ther have been terrorist attacks in most cities of india - delhi, ahmedabad, kashmir, guwahati, jaipur, blr....but the entire country has not rallied behind any of them the way they have rallied behind Bombay.
One example... over the years I have worked closely with colleagues who are Maharashtrian, Bengali, Gujarati, Malyali, Sindhi, Bengali, Goan, Punjabi, kashmiri, Tamil, Parsi (married one too), UPite, Hindu, Muslim and Christian. I would never had this opportunity if I remained in Calcutta.
I would have been mighty proud of this if it was my city.
Objectively/ practically though I feel a place like Pune, (wasn't it the capital of Peshwas?), would be better placed to be a rallying point for Marathi than Mumbai
Cheers,
Kalyan Karmakar (with a surname like mine I am a letter away from being a Maharashtrian ;) )
@ Kalyan/The knife
I am sorry that my comment came across as antagonistic. I did not mean it to be that way. It is the nature of online discourse that leads to mismatch in 'tone' and 'intention.' I thought the tone in your comment was dismissive and supercilious which definitely is not the case going by your latest comment. Before I go further let me also clarify that my reference to the 'other side' was meant in 'taking sides in an argument' kind of a way and I did not in any way mean to 'otherise' you. If I had meant it that way then I would otherise myself, since I am firmly in your camp when it comes to this issue. I thought the following para in my comment should have made this clear.
There are many valid and genuine arguments against the bankrupt politics of victimisation fomented by Raj Thackeray. However, you aren't going to convince anyone from the other side if you use disingenuous facts to argue in favour of a genuine cause.
So you are right when you say that I feel passionately about this issue. Except that I feel passionately that no one should be stopped from migrating and that language should not be forced onto anybody for whatever reason. So you see we are on the same side on this issue, so to speak. My problem with your earlier comment, apart from incorrect facts, was that the moment you get into the issues of who forms the majority in Mumbai and what language did the original inhabitants of Mumbai speak, then you are falling into a neat trap laid out by Raj and his ilk. Let me explain. You tried to rationalise not knowing Marathi on the basis of whether or not Maharashtrians are a majority in Mumbai. So now that you know that Maharashtrians are in a majority is it ok for Raj Thackeray's goons to impose Marathi forcefully? In fact this is the exact argument Raj makes. Now that you know that kolis either speak Marathi or a dialect of Marathi (Malvani/Kokani) does that justify Maharashtrians' claim that Mumbai belongs to Marathis and by corollary everyone should do their transactions in Marathi and therefore there should be no migration from any other state?
According to me, no one should be forced/coerced to do anything against his/her will in a free country. It is a violation of fundamental right. And at the same time no one should be allowed to stop anyone from migrating anywhere across India since it is legal to do so constitutionally. This is the only argument you need to make to oppose this nonsensical issue of Marathi victimhood that Raj has raised. Any other majority minority and original inhabitants or not issues are subservient to the right to freedom of speech and the right to migrate anywhere within the borders of India.
Having said that, Maharashtrians should be free to exercise their freedom of speech and use non-coercive means to further whatever causes they hold dear. By hitching their wagon to Thackeray’s goondagardi kind of politics, they are hurting the cause of spreading Marathi culture. Even if everyone in Mumbai starts speaking Marathi because of MNSs threat, they will not do it because they love Marathi or are enamoured by Marathi culture. They will be doing it just to avoid violent reprisals. I don’t understand how Maharashtrians supporting Thackeray’s campaign do not get this point. I would find this scenario of people speaking in Marathi because they are forced and not out of any love for the language and culture more obnoxious than them not speaking it at all.
Instead if Raj had focused his campaign on starting Marathi lessons for voluntary enrollment by the migrants and teaching them about the history and culture of Maharashtra, I would have been the first to support him. Last time when his uncle had raised the issue of South Indian dominance, Shiv Sena had started English lessons for graduates from Marathi schools and colleges. This campaign had led to lots of lower middle class Maharashtrians learning English and finding white collar jobs. Similar efforts in terms of introducing the migrants to the rich culture of Marathi theatre and folk music which they can access when they learn Marathi would have been more beneficial in the long term assimilation of such migrants.
Anyways, just my thoughts! Hope the misunderstanding regarding my stance is cleared after this comment.
@knife.
You say locals should speak more marathi. So you are encouraging locals do what the thais, italians and french , disregard people who do not know the language.
I have lived around indians (grad school) from different states. I will not generalize since it is case by case basis but most of the times I had to ask my Telegu friends to speak in Hindi, my Gujarati friends to speak in Hindi so that I can understand.
I myself speak hindi if I realize someone in the conversation is a nonmarathi. But very few people had the courtesy to speak in hindi when other indians joined in, usually you had to request.
So essentially the cultures who have a tight grip on their languages have been haughty and not do accommodate.
Maharashtrians haven't done that but that doesn't mean you ask them why their language is even essential or take them for granted.
All I am saying is, if you stay substantial number of yrs in Mumbai is it too much to expect that you should know the local language.
As T pointed out, is it a burden on children to learn the local language of the state.
Look at our celebs who ahve been brought up in Mumbai, they identify themselves as Bengali, Punjabi. Aamir Khan is the first one I heard saying he is a Maharashtrian.
I don't mind debate at all. Again, I do not support violence or curbing people's birth's rights.
Cheers,
K
This is such a marvellous debate. Thank you T for initiating it.
Just a few minor points.
I think there's nothing wrong, and everything right, in having shop signs in Devanagari. I think it's good that schools in Bombay teach Marathi. Apart from all else, it opens up an entirely new world to you, as learning any new language does.
It's not just that the violence of Raj T is wrong, and that's the reason to stand against him. It's also that the violence is the surest way to destroy Marathi culture. (Which is what Chetan said earlier). When you beat people up, they are extremely unlikely to appreciate the culture you are forcing on them. In other words, the greatest danger to Marathi culture is not the people who come in from outside, but people like Raj T.
I also think we've forgotten that Raj T learned all this from his uncle, Bal T. He and his SS have been attacking outsiders for 40 years. For example, they attacked Biharis, to great uproar comparable to now, in early 2004.
So if they've been doing the same thing for 40 years, and now the nephew is doing it too, we might ask the question: if these guys have been doing it so long, why does Marathi culture still need to be protected?
Hi! I am back. Yes Dilip this is a great debate. I think this is the most intense (or only) socio poiltical debate/ discussion which I have had at Mumbai :). The sad thing about Raj Thackeray is that he is one of the few party leaders who doesn't require a wheel chair. He definitely has the potential to lead. I so wish he had rallied all the people of Mumbai during the terror attacks instead of staying quiet. He could have been our Rudy Guiliani.
@T I just looked up the post from Sai that you tagged. I can completely empathise with his POV. My ten years in Mumbai have been spent in Bandra where you only come across Muslims, Christians, Sindhis, Gujaratis and in private sector market research and advertising firms where I have worked with people of all backgrounds AND (I don't know if this is a pattern) very few Maharashtrians.
@Chetan...thanks for clearing the air. I had noted the paragraph you had referred to earlier too and knew we were in the same side. The advantage of a net debate is that we can explain ourselves at length (our comments have been longer than the post) and without losing our cool. I appreciate the points you have made. Incidentally I am sure that I had read/ heard on TV that Maharahstrians were a minority. Since then I have seen that that is not true. I wonder if I got it wong or whether that person had his facts wrong
@K...I was just giving that as a suggestion (on speaking Marathi). The fact is that you can spend a large part of your life in Mumbai without actually interacting with Maharashtrians. One might not like that, but that is a reality.
I have observed that is natural for people to break into their dialect when they meet someone from their own community. This is a global truth. However it is downright rude to not switch to a common language when others are around. It is like whispering into someone's ears in front of others.
As to whether it is too much to ask people to learn Marathi...it is not. But one has to respect individual preferences. At the risk of being autobiographical...I relate to the sense of freedom, cosmopilitonism and respect for others that Mumbai stands for. These are values I have learnt here and tried to internalise.
Others might try to relate through learning the local language. I think the main thing for immigrants (whether from inside or outside Maharashtra) is to respect and appreciate your hosts. I also try to pay my debt to the city in a very small way by trying to talk about it to the world through my blog.
You had earlier raised the question of how do other cities deal with the immgrant problem I believe that many said that the economic slowdown of Calcutta was due to Bangladeshi influx in 71. Anyway Calcutta wants to be Bombay now so I see more and more signs of aping Mumbai when I go back to Calcutta.
I had recently done a study on working professionals at Mumbai and Shanghai and we saw that the two cities were very similar. Both were way ahead of other cities in their country because of a mix of their own resources and iimigrants. Locals in both cities were coming to terms with the reality of immigrants.
@all: While local languages have their importance we can't cock a snoop at English as that's what has brought us back in contention in the global economy. And it probably is better suited, as a neutral language, to unite Indians across state canvasses so that questions of who is Maharashtrian or Bengali etc gain less importance in comparison to issues like how do we ensure that 2611 never happens again in India.
As to why do more people speak Hindi. I wonder whether it is because the government has pushed or (at least for me) because of the DD serials of the 80s and because of Hindi films
Wow!!! You made my day. Brilliant post.
Marathi is not my mother tongue but I surely am a proud Mumbaikar. I surely can speak, read and write Marathi better than one of my Marathi colleague out here with me... Does that make me a better or him worse Maharashtrian?
I am not in India, but I can bet no one misses Mumbai more than I do. I was glued on to TV for 3 days, did nothing else... no work nothing till the time all the terrorist issue was over.
You echoed everything that I would have liked to say to RT and the MNS group in the most appropriate language they would like to listen to.
I can give my experience from Singapore. This country just welcomes everyone who comes here; just like Mumbai. There is a mix of different cultures and languages that stay here. But no one is forced to learn each others language. Government promotes communal harmony by ensuring equal importance is given to each language, culture and their important festivals. And as I noticed here, harmony automatically leads to development.
Cheers to you “T” for initiating this discussion... Can I put a link on my blog for this post?
walkalone, you're welcome to link it.
and welcome and thank you to everyone who's debating this issue.
T,
A Very Soothing Marathi. though Some issue Are Wrongly Addressed.
When We Talk About AK 47 and Terrorists , Can you tell me " Is Raj Questionable?"
The Person who are questionable are
1.Manmohan Singh. ( Who's Dedication is to The Madam and his party, and who has fully forgotten his Duties to the Country).
2.Vilasrao Deshmukh . -- Tell me What has he done?He increased the FSI for the Builder Lobby , sending all the money to Delhi.
3. Sonia Gandhi - The Gandhi Family is the Root Cause of all the Divides in the country.
4.Sharad Pawar. -The Head of Ruling Party in Maharashtra.And He has done so little for Mumbai.
5.No one Ever Wondered Where our Dynamic Railway Minister Mr.Laloo Prasad Yadav went away , when the terrorist Attacked CST?Why is he not answerable for the same?
FYI T, 36 New Trains were Scheduled from Bhiar and UP THIS VERY YEAR? WHAT FOR? to have mumbai inflow more of these Pest, Who Rightly RAISE their Voice when there is injustice done to them in Mumbai , But Dnt Dare Raise their Voice , in their Own States and States Like Assam.
Penetration of UPites and Biharis Not has only created infringement Problems but also there are law and Order Problem due to these people , who accept a bounty to murder someone and rum away to their States.
These People Are Constant Trouble Makers with the Private Travel Agents , who hire their Services to Shirdi and Brutally Murder the drivers , running away with Their Vehicles to the Dense Land of Bihars.
Laloo and Mulayam and Amar Singh , have done very little for their States and they want to Extend their Power in Mumbai.( as these will be the people voting for their party in Mumbai) So Answer me One Question T, Do you want Laloo /Mulayam / Amarsingh to be your Next CM? Because they are happy thir people are migrating to these States and so they can throw their Weight around in Mumbai.
Sanjay Nirupam, had started the Drama of Chat Puja Along with Congress in Mumbai. Had Anyone heard Politicising of Chat Puja in Mumbai Before?
Well, T , Me Marathi nahin and tumchya sarkhe Alankarik Marathi hi Kadachit Bolta Yet Nahin Mala, Pan Mala Evda tar Thaok Ahe , Ke Laloo Prasad ani Mullayam ani Amarsingh he, Tighe Mothe Gunde Ahet ya Desh che, Karan Tyani Aple Rajya Sathi Evdhya Varshat Kahich Nahin Keala.
The Problem Of Penetration Of Upites is Not Only in Mumbai Some of the Stated Which have shown Disgust on the Matter in the Past are
1. Delhi ( Sheila Dixit)
2. Madras
3. Bangalore.
Oh! C'mon ASK the LEADERS of the State of Bihars and UPs , what plan do they have , so that their People don't have to RUN away from their Homes Seeking for Employment.
T H I N K ! ! !
thank you hitesh.
by your logic osama is a bigger terrorist so should we let kasab go?
36 new trains? wow.
i was not aware that those who do not raise their voice against injustice done to them are pests. so all our dying farmers are pests? the people who pay hafta out of fear are pests? those who quietly vacate their homes when threatened are pests? relatives of the people who drowned in the bombay floods are pests? children of those who died in the train blasts are pests?
people who walk for miles everyday to get one pot of water are pests? the family members of the shopkeeper who died of a heart attack when the mns attacked his shop, they are pests?
ah, bounty killing. you mean like supari? i didn't know it was an exclusive up-bihar concept?
and since we can't catch the trouble-makers in the dense land of bihars, we allow raj thackeray's men to beat up innocent cabbies and shopkeepers here in bombay?
no i do not want any of the options you gave me as CM. i have no idea where you got that idea from.
sanjay nirupam and raj thackeray are two sides of the same coin. both are drama-addicts and attention seekers. more importantly, both are politicians. i am more concerned about humans.
so applying your solution to a broader spectrum, all the indians settled abroad should be sent back. all the multinational companies here should be shut down. let us all dig our own separate wells and swim inside forever.
it's a good thing to ask every minister what they have done for their states, why they haven't fulfilled their responsibilities. bombay is showing signs of doing that. hopefully the rest of the country will follow.
hitesh, baba amte and medha patkar are two of the countless people who have had the strength to deny themselves unimaginable opportunities and quietly go about making a difference. if raj thackeray is serious about the marathi manoos, how come he does not help them?
and oh. i am thinking.
hmmmm. The Pest Word Felt a Bit Out of Place... But then, more than 50 years of independence and there is no sign of these states for any economic developments?
I Apologise for the Using The "Pest" , But T tell me ...
People Going Vocal In Mumbai this time , have they ever Stood up to Question the Likes Of Laloo and Mullayam in their very own states?
Well Globally , there is a sense of This Very Feeling ... Obama , wants the Job to be outsourced to India stopped.I have Friends in Call Center , who gets more Abusing Words from India Abroad than Inhabitants of USA.People Zaire , Nigeria have been to Killing Gujratis and Ransacking their Business ..due to the feeling of insecurity of Jobs.
My Entire motive of my post was not to overlook Raj's Action on the issue.But point out how many times during the last ten years there is mass outrage against these two so called Leaders of Bihar and UP , Who have done ACTUALLY Nothing for their states and running it as if they are the jagirdars of these states¿ How justified do you think the Advertisements for jobs in Railway only to appear in Newspapers of UP and Bihar? People applauded Laloo for his Work done to Churn out profit From Indian Railways. There is nothing He Has Done i must Say. N O T H I N G.
Your Answer Did Manage to Be an Eye Opener to Certain Issues to me .But then,I would only want people of these States to be more Vocal in their Area ...choose a proper representatives.
I have gone through entire Blog , Tell me T, how many times have you been Vocal to Mumbaikar's Problem?
How many times have we questioned , Railway ministers , That My dear Friend " People In Mumbai Travel from Dombivali to CST" like the Mangoes in That Grass Box ..sometimes even not finding Air to Breathe? So there is not True spirit of Mumbaikar .. All the Spirit of Being A Mumbaikar comes up only when Biharis and UPites are Beaten.
How Come¿
Well , Bombay aka Mumbai have always shown signs of Being VOCAL about asking politicians..no wonder we never had repeated terms for a single CM..except once..
I am no Big FAN of Raj Thackeray ...and definitely, he is not above the law .. I know his motives behind Marathi Manoos blabbing...But yes, killing Pawn to Save the King should not be an option in Real Life situation ..
Osama is Terrorist , and Kasab should never be let to roam free... But when Osama is root cause of all terrorism and can be easily nabbed, why not they booked first?
Again,citing the examples of Amte and Patkar ... Raj is just a newcomer try to make his stand in Politics..How many times people of bihars and UP made Laloo,Baccha Yadav ,Rabari Devi , Mulayam and his Aligarh University forces realise this?
Chao and thanks :) for Thinking ¿
hitesh, it's heartening to hear that you regret the use of that word.
i do feel terrible about not being vocal about a lot of issues. but i think this attack was a breaking point for a lot of us. for years now, i've lived in bombay, wondering at the miracle it must take for it to function everyday, shuddering at how it is hanging by a thread, haunted by over-overcrowded trains and non-existent roads, the lack of space, hygiene and basic civic sense.
i hope i get to do more than just write about it here. i hope we all earn the right to call it our city.
:) .. good to hear that .... will keep your space watching .... am already following it ...
Keep Writing....
You Know T, We have a Community in Orkut of a place where i Live.
There was recently a Post for March to Gateway of India , for a strong Protest against Terrorism...
But if, you tell them to march upto local cooperator to get a Signal Done at a cross road , that killed more lives than terrorist attacks, No one will stand for it .The Last being a Mother and her two kids razed brutally , who were waiting for school bus at around 7.00 am...
Well , These Rallies Crop up like Weeds... 90% to gain Popularity.I really Despise them. I Even Despise Medias like NDTV and all of their Likes, Who deviated the attention towards Raj Thackeray , by reading that silly SMS again and again. I think Rajdeep Sardesai and Their Kinds are Bigger Culprits than Raj Thackeray , when they pointed out that the NSG commando who fought were from North. Well all said and done , was there any reason to bring up these Issues? Was that not in a way making a Divide Between People?
What i strongly Feel is we as a citizen should set Right First Our
1.Home.
2.Locality
3.Society
4.City
5.and i am sure if everyone does this .. the States and Country will Follow......
We all learned that in some part of our schooling and we really fail to realise that.. when we grow up...
We usually are biased , and tend to share media's view on the issue.
I don't know if u know it very well or not but these medias shows us only what they are paid to show...At the End of the Day ..it's Nothing But Business and Nothing Personal...
i know ...i went off topic ... but then just wanted to take it out...what was burning inside...
Chao.. and Thanks
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